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Thread: "Sanctuaries" and when is something too much.

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    Smile "Sanctuaries" and when is something too much.

    Originally, Bell wanted us to take our conversation over to the original topic between me and Free Spirit, however, that topic is a dead horse and this is something else entirely. This is something that has been bothering me for some time now, and others as well.

    The reptile hobby is large, and there are many aspects of the hobby. We have breeders, sellers, keepers, collectors, rescues, sanctuaries, and everything in between. There are many grey lines in terms of what is "acceptable". I find myself having a slight problem with the way "Free spirit" is conducting its operations, so I'm going to bring up a few things in this thread to discuss.

    The first thing I would like to bring up is the "adoption fees" given out by this individual. The most recent example of "California king snake for 45, desert for 65" got me slightly annoyed. You pose as a rescue, ask to sign adoption papers this and that, however you sell at a level extremely similar to retail sales? I breed, sell, take in rescues, the whole 9 yards, and I can say none of the animals I've ever "rescued" have been sold at such ridiculous prices for the animals. Why is it you can pose as an adoption by using the ploy of "adoption" to trick people into thinking it's better to get your animals than a pet store? Why should they have to sign a contract for an animal that they are paying retail price for? I'll be honest, if I adopted an animal from you, and paid at or above retail on any of them (deserts are not worth $65), I would do whatever the hell I wanted with that animal. You claim the purpose of the "adoption fee" is to cover your cost of gas, etc. If you are a rescue you are not concerned with the reimbursement of things such as time and gas. That is something that a RETAILER does. If you are concerned about the animals well being why is it such a stretch to get your pricing right. I hate CoRHS.org as much as a lot of people around here, but at least they have pretty standard adoption fees for the animals, regardless of type, age, species, etc, you price very much according to value.

    I've watched several of your "adoption" fees, and they are all at market price, every single one of them. I have yet to see an animal go for what a "Rescue" would rehome an animal for as a rescue. I struggle with the idea of you being a legitimate rescue organization. Please explain to me what exactly warrants your pricing other than "gas and time" because I can bring up a few examples of sick animals who I've dumped a ton of money/time into, and rehomed at very small fees and taken the loss, simply because I care more about the animal than some spare change.

    Secondly, you have a Timor Monitor in your care. I already know you had troubles with monitors before, and you talked with my girlfriend (and myself, since I was blocked) about your husbandry for said monitor. Nearly every bit of his care was 100% wrong, and I offered my help in either caring for him, or taking him from you so he could be cared for properly. I was assured he would be getting a nice new cage, this that and the other. I asked numerous times for pictures of the new cage (supposed to be built what? 2 weeks ago?), and you said it's all completed, and all this, but you don't have time/ability to get me a picture of his new setup. Sure enough, pictures of new animals are up, however nothing in regards to the Timor. I fail to see the purpose in outright lieing about the care of your monitor to someone who has interest in helping you. Considering I have considerable more varanid experience than you, and haven't killed any of my monitors I would think you would be more accepting of it?

    Also, I notice you get animals and within DAYS are rehoming them from a RESCUE. An environment for sick animals. Do you have any idea about proper quarantine procedures? Who knows what is getting passed on with your animals. Eating and passing food = not clean animal. I'm not entirely sure what kind of system you have, but you certainly can not tell based upon a few hours of the animal being in your care. What vet knowledge do you have in regards to keeping reptiles? Do you even run fecal tests on your rescues before adopting them out?

    Again, I'm not trying to be a huge jerk, however, I can't sit by and watch this kind of crap continue. If you're selling animals to make ends meet, for fun, extra cash, whatever reason. By all means kudos to you, I sell herps just the same. At least have the guts to admit to what you are doing or answer these questions. As much as your little PM of "rehoming fees don't matter to you, you're not adopting from me". WHO CARES. You are advertising yourself to the public as a rescue, me adopting an animal or not is 100% irrelevant, these are questions that any rescue should be able to readily answer at the drop of a hat without questions. No, I'm not going to contact you, however I believe what you are doing is wrong, and I will do what I can to make sure the community is brought to light on what you are doing. Regardless of how you feel about it.

    -Mike

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    Super Moderator widowman10's Avatar
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    Re: "Sanctuaries" and when is something too much.

    ok.

    let's keep things general if we are going to have a true discussion about this.

    and we're going to try to avoid personal attacks as well.

    cool by everyone? (i assume nobody else wants to read pages full of drama either, so that's why we're going to stick to an objective discussion)

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    Re: "Sanctuaries" and when is something too much.

    I'm not going to take sides here because 1. I'm not even IN the area any more, and 2. I don't need the dramatics.
    That said:

    I don't agree with this statement: "If you are a rescue you are not concerned with the reimbursement of things such as time and gas."
    That's not true. Rescues aren't in it to make a profit but they DO need to be reimbursed for what they do, when they can get it. Otherwise they'd disappear quickly and be of no use to anyone. So I think that's not a logical or accurate argument to make.

    As far as the medical stuff though-I agree with that. If you don't have them long enough to quarantine them, you can't be honest about their condition to potential owners.

    The monitor stuff is (for me) he said/she said because I wasn't involved in that, and I didn't see any of the emails or back and forth stuff, so I'm not going to comment on it.

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    Re: "Sanctuaries" and when is something too much.

    The government reimburses rescues. Look at CoRHS's fees, flat fee for all snakes/lizards. Regardless of length of time housing the animal, food costs etc.

    Clearly the redtail boas up there need reimbursement, for housing over 2-3 years, I'd say an adoption fee of $300 would be extremely reasonable- simply because of how much time/money they've put into the snake. Wait, at those adoption fees- no one wants the snake because it's absurd, and it just spends more time at the shelter. Costing more money. Makes 0 sense.

    -Mike

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    Re: "Sanctuaries" and when is something too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by agrodolce
    I don't agree with this statement: "If you are a rescue you are not concerned with the reimbursement of things such as time and gas."
    That's not true. Rescues aren't in it to make a profit but they DO need to be reimbursed for what they do, when they can get it. Otherwise they'd disappear quickly and be of no use to anyone. So I think that's not a logical or accurate argument to make.
    I agree. CoRHS, for example, takes donations, volunteers, foster care, etc... Even if they aren't charging an arm and a leg for adoption fees they are getting some sort of overhead funds in other ways. How does a start up rescue go about covering its costs if all it has are adoption fees, though? Was anyone around when CoRHS started a decade ago? Does anyone know how they made it "big?"

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike
    The government reimburses rescues.
    I honestly don't know much about non-profit law. Is this for real? So, like, smaller rescues can get some funding assistance from the government? I imagine it also helps during tax time, too. But, like, you have to be an actual non-profit to take advantage, though, right?

    Does anyone have the non-profit law in CO? I'm about head to bed and my google-fu will fail me now if I tried searching.

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    Re: "Sanctuaries" and when is something too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike
    The government reimburses rescues.

    -Mike
    I'm not aware of this happening. I know some of them have tax-exempt status but that doesn't mean they're reimbursed by the government. I've actually never heard of it happening. I admit I don't know much about 501c or running a rescue. I've never tried to run one and I haven't worked for one, but if rescues were being reimbursed by the government I'd think it would be in the media eventually, even if it was only because someone complained about snakes or dogs getting government money when Congress is about to not pay our military or blah blah whatever dramatics they choose to bring up at the time.


    *edit*
    I may randomly stop responding because I don't know when I'm going to bed, btw.

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    Re: "Sanctuaries" and when is something too much.

    It takes 54 dollars, for license and getting the name. After that you are officially considered a business. The government will give you .50 a mile. However, in order to be an official rescue, you have to meet certain standards. I wonder if Free-Spirit has actually applied for aid? To become an official rescue? Any of that? There is plenty of assistance out there, rather than charging stupid fees just for "gas" which in my eyes- is someone trying to make an extra buck.

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    Re: "Sanctuaries" and when is something too much.

    Alright i guess i should put my defense in here. My original monitor was rescued along with 2 tokays geckos by a member of this forum as members saw when they visited my home originally the monitor was sick dehydrated and extremely malnourished (it was vetted 3 times under a friends account) before ultimately dying one day due to improper care. As i told you and your girlfriend (who were both blocked due to harassing me on my facebook page) the timor was recently purchased and was in a quarantine tank he has been moved since then and i don't feel like i owe someone who gives constant attacks on me pictures no and pushing me for them was rude also as i told you i am planning on doing a series eventually on setups but right now I'm doing the bare minimum in taking pictures because my life is very complicated at this time for personal reasons the new pictures taken weren't even taken by me.

    Now to address the other issues i don't have a 501c3 tax exemption license as a private rescue this mean the government DOES NOT HELP AT ALL i pay taxes for all adoption fees etc i spend at least 8 hours a week cleaning tanks feeding reptiles i pay out 40 dollars a week feeding rats that feed the rescues and 20 dollars a week in crickets for picky eaters not to mention the food costs for the roach colony which is a food mixture as well as about 20 dollars a week in water crystals to water them if i don't get reimbursed i can't keep doing what I'm doing to help heck i have had to sell other things (like some of my guitars) just to be able to afford to do this is the first place i don't have the fund to buy or build a separate building for rescues to get a 501c3 license right now so I'm doing the best i can until i do also i do care about the animals i can show you lists of emails of people offering more than my prices for animals but be turning them down because i felt they were the wrong home i had a Savannah monitor for around 6 months because i couldn't find the perfect home for it before i finally found it one. Also if i only care about money why did when i was getting offered 60 dollars for the bearded dragon adopt it out for FREE? you make is seem as if i'm some monster buying a reselling well that isn't the case here I'm trying my best and I'm sorry if that's not good enough for people but I'm doing all i can here and as far as vetting typically i try to get them in the vet fecal done at least once before adoption on the recent rescues i haven't been able to afford to do so so any prospective adopter is warned of the quarantine that has taken place also yes they've been put up for adoption but it'll also take me weeks to adopt them out so it's better to start interviewing early on. If i was in it just for the money i could get 120 dollars for both snakes (more than i'm asking) right now because a certain pet store wants to buy them for that but i want them to go to loving forever homes instead of sitting in a pet store needing love and attention. Like everyone else here i'm not made of money and because i don't have the funds to get my license right now i'm trying to do the best i can with what i can i spend hours a day doing this either answering phone calls for rescues helping with advice or just playing with feeding and caring for the animals anyone who has watched me deal with a death of any reptile i've had knows my feelings towards them hell i even held funerals for my 1/4" tarantulas that died of rough molts that i had only a week. I genuinely wish people would not always think of the bad in people and sometimes the good i'm only 19 and i'm trying to help animals and i think some credit is due for that, if you don't think so thats your right to do so.

    also i could show you what goes out and what comes in to the rescue and i can tell you we're losing money by the buckets full but that doesn't matter to me i'm trying to do whats right. Getting the lisence isn't too hard but the stipulations of having one are otherwise every tom dick and harry would have one.

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    Re: "Sanctuaries" and when is something too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolita
    Alright i guess i should put my defense in here. My original monitor was rescued along with 2 tokays geckos by a member of this forum as members saw when they visited my home originally the monitor was sick dehydrated and extremely malnourished (it was vetted 3 times under a friends account) before ultimately dying one day due to improper care.
    You had this monitor through 3 vet visits, and a decent time frame before it died.. How does a monitor die from malnourishment and dehydration alone? Both are extremely easy to fix, I think the improper care might have been on your part. I'd love to know how long YOU had the monitor in your care..

    As i told you and your girlfriend (who were both blocked due to harassing me on my facebook page) the timor was recently purchased and was in a quarantine tank he has moved since then and i don't feel like i owe someone who gives constant attacks on me pictures no and pushing me for them was rude also as i told you i am planning on doing a series eventually on setups but right now I'm doing the bare minimum in taking pictures because my life is very complicated at this time for personal reasons the new pictures taken weren't even taken by me.
    My girlfriend hardly harassed you. Go ahead and post the full convo listed on your picture. We inquired about your husbandry and offered assistance in PROPER husbandry (which you don't seem to fathom with monitors). Your "quarantine tank" was too small for a monitor, period. At the time I requested pictures we where on civil speaking terms, and I was even offering you assitance with things. It was simply a matter if you didn't upgrade, and haven't upgraded to a proper enclosure, you won't even list off exactly what he's in. That's pretty sad. Anyone can come up to me and ask me what I keep any of my animals in (and I'm not a rescue, I just take in rescues), and I'm more than willing to explain my setups. Not only for them, but for the information I could gain from them, and for the animal in my care. So the new pictures where not taken by you, but the taker of said photos couldn't manage a simple point and shoot of the timor after repeated requests to see how he's doing? Sounds like an excuse. If life is so hectic and you have no time, how do you have time to constantly repost your flagged classifieds? How do you have time to post here, work on your website, sit on your facebook, make hour long drives for snakes? Seems to me if life is so complicated you need to be spending time on it, not taking in more animals. If you have time to sit and update facebook crying about people who stand you up- you have 2 minutes to take a picture and upload it.

    Now to address the other issues i don't have a 501c3 tax exemption license as a private rescue this mean the government DOES NOT HELP AT ALL i pay taxes for all adoption fees etc i spend at least 8 hours a week cleaning tanks
    What exactly are you doing to get the 501c3 (which you don't need to get government help, I'm a registered business and I get tax write offs for things like gas, food, utilities..)... How do you pay for taxes on adoption fees, however you don't get any write-offs? Are you familiar with how the system works? Also, 8 hours a week? I have 4 monitors, and several snakes, between 2 locations that I take care of, that require well over 20 hours a week of raw time and effort, between cages, food, raising food, changing gallons of water... 8 hours isn't much at all..

    feeding reptiles i pay out 40 dollars a week feeding rats that feed the rescues and 20 dollars a week in crickets for picky eaters not to mention the food costs for the roach colony which is a food mixture as well as about 20 dollars a week in water crystals to water them
    Where are you buying said rats from? Seems none of the animals offered for adoption are near large enough to eat rats. I guess because I rescued 2 ball pythons with RI and Mouth rot I can list off the hundreds I spend a month on food for my various animals. Oh wait, the Boas you feed with rats, and other such large snakes, are not adoptable, the are personal pets. You can't use that as an excuse, if you can't afford the pets, or what to whine about them, don't have them? 20 dollars a week? 200 crickets? Do tell me what animals will accept only crickets but turn up their nose at roaches? Fact is, every person I've talked to have said once they've seen roaches, they never want any other insects again! As for the roach colony... How are they that expensive? I can raise 10k roaches on $10 a month easily...

    if i don't get reimbursed i can't keep doing what I'm doing to help heck i have had to sell other things (like some of my guitars) just to be able to afford to do this is the first place i don't have the fund to buy or build a separate building for rescues to get a 501c3 license right now so I'm doing the best i can until i do also i do care about the animals i can show you lists of emails of people offering more than my prices for animals but be turning them down because i felt they were the wrong home
    You've adopted out (in the past few weeks) a corn snake, a turtle, I beardie, and now 2 king snakes up for rehome. Am I missing anything? How is the rescue side that expensive? I could care for all of those animals on a small colony of roaches, and a few frozen mice... It's not expensive.

    i had a Savannah monitor for around 6 months because i couldn't find the perfect home for it before i finally found it one.
    What is a proper home for a savannah? What food items, heating, temperatures did you recommend this individual keep him at? I'd love to know exactly what a "proper" home for a savannah is or if you could get me on touch with the adopter I'd love to verify this, and check their husbandry.

    Also if i only care about money why did when i was getting offered 60 dollars for the bearded dragon adopt it out for FREE?
    Lol, my girlfriend and I literally LAUGHED when we read this. You "adopted it" to your sister. That's why it was free. It's not like you gave it to a good home for free, you passed it over to your sister as more of your ever growing family collection. Nearly every animal "we may just keep this one here at the rescue". Basically- you take your rescues in as pets, then whine about food costs.

    you make is seem as if i'm some monster buying a reselling well that isn't the case here I'm trying my best and I'm sorry if that's not good enough for people but I'm doing all i can here and as far as vetting typically i try to get them in the vet fecal done at least once before adoption on the recent rescues i haven't been able to afford to do so so any prospective adopter is warned of the quarantine that has taken place also yes they've been put up for adoption but it'll also take me weeks to adopt them out so it's better to start interviewing early on.
    Not saying your a monster. I'm asking for facts, the same facts any potential adopter has the right to ask for, the same facts you should be 100% up front about as a rescue. I can call up any local rescue, and ask questions, and they are glad to answer, because that is their job. Also, I fail to see how you have to "interview" to place a king snake- an armless 6 year old could handle them, it's not difficult. The reason it takes so long is your fee, plain and simple. Cut the fee, you'll have them in great homes within 24 hours, the homes of people with snake experience.

    If i was in it just for the money i could get 120 dollars for both snakes (more than i'm asking) right now because a certain pet store wants to buy them for that but i want them to go to loving forever homes instead of sitting in a pet store needing love and attention.
    Please tell me which store would give you 120? The only 2 that locally buy herps are valley pets and scales and tails. Scales and Tails wouldn't pay that much, I know Chad better than that. Valley pets actually has talked to me about the prices of kings. $30 for a cal king. I'd love to find which store to verify this, as I'd like to start selling to them! Also- snakes DO NOT NEED love and attention. They are creatures of instinct. Period. They are SOLITARY, most are prey items. They are designed to do 100% fine without any human interaction. Reptiles are not a dog, they don't need attention. That kind of crap drives me nuts, it's pure wrong on every single level.

    Like everyone else here i'm not made of money and because i don't have the funds to get my license right now i'm trying to do the best i can with what i can i spend hours a day doing this either answering phone calls for rescues helping with advice or just playing with feeding and caring for the animals anyone who has watched me deal with a death of any reptile i've had knows my feelings towards them hell i even held funerals for my 1/4" tarantulas that died of rough molts that i had only a week. I genuinely wish people would not always think of the bad in people and sometimes the good i'm only 19 and i'm trying to help animals and i think some credit is due for that, if you don't think so thats your right to do so.
    $54 to be a licensed business, 50 for the licenses/number, and 4 for the name at the DMV. Man, that's rough to pull through. Maybe adopt out some animals so your bill goes lower, than you can afford it so you can get some help with them! 1/4" T dies of rough molt? Fix your humidity you won't have Ts die for no reason at all.

    also i could show you what goes out and what comes in to the rescue and i can tell you we're losing money by the buckets full but that doesn't matter to me i'm trying to do whats right. Getting the lisence isn't too hard but the stipulations of having one are otherwise every tom dick and harry would have one.
    [/quote][/quote]
    You're losing money because of YOUR personal collection. None of your adoptable animals eat $40 a week in rats. Post some real believable numbers, and stop getting your rescues confused with pets that you personally own.

    I have nothing against you as a person, however, I believe people (and I'm not the only one) deserve answers, deserve proof that you know exactly what you are doing. You prove to the community things like your actual expenses for rescues, and your actual knowledge of herps, and you'd get a lot more support and help from people like me, rather than frustration.

    -Mike

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    BANNED Lolita's Avatar
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    Re: "Sanctuaries" and when is something too much.

    I think i had him maybe 3 months the entire time i had him he was being treated for parasites (which i found out he had after a fecal was done by a vet) and the vet basically told me the chances of the lizard surviving were slim to none to begin with.

    First off once someone is banned off a page all their posts disappear i'd love to post it but i can't your girlfriend and another person on my page were bickering on one of my pictures i banned the infracting party simple as that, also please don't mistake me being civil to you as us being on good terms i've always felt that you were being passive aggressive towards me hence the lack of response you catch more flies with honey than vinegar second of all i've told you the dimensions of the tank and several people have been to my home and agreed that he's in a nice setup i don't have to answer to you he's growing and eating fine and has been flourishing. My boyfriend was taking the pictures and to be quite honest when i told him of your request he laughed at you and he really doesn't like you his exact words were "i'm not doing that guy any favors by jumping when he asks and you shouldn't either" and he made a good point.

    Right now we're saving up money to build a seperate building to house the reptiles and once we have enough money set aside i fully intend on applying for a business license but right now it's not in the cards for me simple as that. Second of all i said at least 8 hours as in a bare minimum of time spent with them i was low balling so that i didn't over estimate and get you on me for that but apparently you'll twist whatever i say.

    I raise my own rats i'm saying their food costs that and actually i have witnesses (and i could even take pictures for you since you seem such a stickler for those) of both the desert king and the cali king eating fuzzy rats raising rats is easier because they have a lower birth cannibalism rate. actually some animals wont take the roaches i've had leopard geckos crested geckos chameleons day geckos anoles and much more that wont eat them some of them are picky like the super giant leopard gecko i adopted out wouldn't eat them i sat him in there for hours with them and he'd lick them spit them out and then just walk away but if i put a cricket or a meal worm in there you could bet he'd be on that sucker if you have no experience in it yourself then thats your issue i do. Because roaches need water crystals and they aren't cheap also when you have as many roaches as i do it's costly to keep them.

    Corn snake ate only live we tried prekilled frozen braining one etc nothing prevailed the turtle well i had to go out and buy a container of turtle pellets plus veggies which cost around 15 dollars (i adopted it out for 10 dollars mind you so i didn't even get reimbursed there) the bearded was eating about 20 roaches a day plus veggies plus i had to buy her a tank since she didn't come with them and get her UVB/UVA bulbs. and i've already paid 30 for one kingsnake plus 35 in gas they've both been fed i had to buy heat sources for both snakes (40 dollars in heat pads) so it does add up not to mention i spend over 100 dollars a month in substrate alone because most of my qaurantine tanks are larger 40's (which both the king snakes are in their own 40's) 55's 75s and i have one 130 gallon that are all used for qaurantine they're put on paper towels their first night only.

    i'm not playing into your condescension here i know how to care for my animals it's funny a lot of club members saw how healthy that monitor was when i got him better i mean he had mites lots of open wounds etc but it's funny the pictures erica took he's not wounded anymore he's mite free and up to weight so obviously i was doing something right and i'm not gonna have you harass my adopters just for your amusement.

    Laugh all you want anyone who knows me knows i hate my sister with a fiery passion and we're not even on speaking terms why would i give her something as a gift when i've hated her for the past five years but she wanted the beardie and i knew it would go to a good home where it would be cared for.

    No you're going about it in the wrong way you have questions fine and dandy but when you bring out this dog and pony show and make accusations that not asking questions anymore is it? thats more along the lines of making accusations and expecting me to smile over it.

    First of all why would i help you get more business when i'm extremely irritated with you right now. Second of all i meant state wide as in locally not colorado springs locally because colorado springs isn't even local to me.

    my collection is fine the way it is it's funny for a long time i was fine paying out what i have for them without adopting anything out but extra tanks heat sources rats substrate etc rack up quite the bill and some of the fees don't make that up like the two 10 dollar turtles didn't even cover their food or gas money. Second i have one of the same species thats flourishing molted 3 times in my care and is happy as can be sometimes stuff happens and tiny slings die it's why people buy multiples and i am not telling you those things so you can take another jab at me.

    the rats eat 40 dollars a week in food thats what i'm saying to keep it from costing me more i had to get more rats and expand breeding. My rescues were never confused with my personal collection thanks for the condescension though.

    Obviously you have some major vendetta against me because you have never personally emailed me with any of these questions just like the original CL indecent started because you threw accusations without having ever spoken to me i have years of experience and so does my family we've been saving animals anonymously for years slipping through the cracks where no one notices it's only when i made a name and have become competition for people that i end up getting attacked in this way.

    Sure some people might have questions thats perfectly fine with me if you have questions like i post on my CL ad heres my email addres xrockinraptorx@aol.com any questions concerns etc can be emailed and discussed it's funny that your the only one who's doing this and i havent gotten a single concerned email from anyone over it. If people wanna ask their questions respectfully from the start i'm more inclined to answer when you twist everything i say or are condescending at every turn i'm less inclined to want to discuss anything civily with you and i think all people are that way if you attack someone right off the bat instead of ask them in a polite and genuine way then you're less likely to get what you want. And saying some of my pets dying is my fault in not only uncalled for but it is also a big reason as to why your not getting your desired response if everyone doesn't wanna like me thats okay i have a lot of people who do and i'm perfectly happy helping in the ways i can right now between a dying grandmother a possibly dying mother job hunting trying to go to school and trying to run a rescue i have enough on my plate not to care if everyone likes me they have my email my email is posted on every ad i have and if they have any questions or concerns that they politely and respectfully ask then i'm more than willing to answer but i don't deserve constant attacks we do put out a lot of money most of it is because of setups substrate hides water dishes etc it all ads up after a while and not all rehoming fees make up for it so i gotta put out here and there and i've sold some of my stuff that i've had for years to help with it. Honestly i don't see the point of making a big to do about it when you seem to be the only one here concerned if you wanna ask questions privately respectfully then i'll answer every question you have if you wanna keep talking down to me you'll find i'm very unresponsive so such behaviors.

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    BANNED Lolita's Avatar
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    Re: "Sanctuaries" and when is something too much.

    also this http://cosprings.craigslist.org/pet/2391668592.html is a sale price 45 dollars for something that comes with a couple weeks of food etc is not a sale price

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    Super Moderator widowman10's Avatar
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    Re: "Sanctuaries" and when is something too much.

    are we done with this now?

    i think this moved back to "personal" instead of a true discussion a few posts back.

    if we can't keep it to a general level, i think we're done here. concur?

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    Location
    Colorado Springs
    Posts
    2,583

    Re: "Sanctuaries" and when is something too much.

    I agree, Brian, that regressed pretty quickly. :roll:

    The original thread was started so you two could work out your issues in a more private place than CL; and it appeared, at the time, that you did. But the issue between you two gets brought back up again in the club forum classifieds, started anew here and then, after asked to not make the discussion personal, you guys make it personal again (and I'm mainly "looking" at Mike here as he named names after he was asked not to). I know it's hard to have questions answered if one party is blocking the other or ignoring emails, etc... but, well, maybe that should be a hint that you've reached a brick wall and it's time to stop? You've both said your pieces and to keep bringing it up is just beating a dead horse.

    If this is brought up again on any thread one or both of you, Leah and Mike, will be banned from the forums and club activities. Consider yourselves warned.

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    84

    Re: "Sanctuaries" and when is something too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bell
    I agree, Brian, that regressed pretty quickly. :roll:

    The original thread was started so you two could work out your issues in a more private place than CL; and it appeared, at the time, that you did. But the issue between you two gets brought back up again in the club forum classifieds, started anew here and then, after asked to not make the discussion personal, you guys make it personal again (and I'm mainly "looking" at Mike here as he named names after he was asked not to). I know it's hard to have questions answered if one party is blocking the other or ignoring emails, etc... but, well, maybe that should be a hint that you've reached a brick wall and it's time to stop? You've both said your pieces and to keep bringing it up is just beating a dead horse.

    If this is brought up again on any thread one or both of you, Leah and Mike, will be banned from the forums and club activities. Consider yourselves warned.
    I openly ask for information, information that should be readily available to the public. Do you not have any interest in knowing if the above poster has proper husbandry? It isn't personal attacks, I do the same with with CoRHS- when their husbandry information is flat out incorrect.

    I did name names, because I have a problem with how a "rescue" is being run. A "rescue" is providing a service to the community, the community has every right to ask questions and everything of that nature.

    I'm blocked from her page after trying to stop- in that matter, I will continue to flag every free spirit post, and will continue warning people about what is actually going on. I care about the animals, not your opinion, her opinion, or any other opinion in this matter. Until facts are brought to light- enough to warrant this as an actual sanctuary/rescue- I will question it and call it in to question just like I do CoRHS on emails all the time.

    I'm not going to post about it here again, but the fact you guys openly support this crap- is 100% ridiculous. If you want to ban me for doing something I have a right to do- go right ahead. I was invited here simply for the reason to talk between me and free spirit- anything else oh well.

    -Mike

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    82

    Re: "Sanctuaries" and when is something too much.

    ok so im trying to sit idly by and just read all this, sorry if my comment looks like a run on i hate punctuation and capitalization when im thinking. but from a business view point in mind, im sorry to say but Lolita if you cant afford to help these animals yourself and are having to sell all your possessions, is it really worth it to keep going on, or should you start finding suitable homes for all your animals now, work on getting your life in order and then take it over from there, you can start from scratch
    im not here to pick sides, i dont deal with emotions i deal with facts, dont cry to me because im right
    "stonedsage"

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